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3 bar map sensor


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#1 Surok

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 04:10 PM

ok i need a 3 bar map sensor...

how much are they and is there a certain one i should go for?
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#2 MR2QIK

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 04:29 PM

If you don't mind my asking....Why do you "need" one? You're not running over 20psi & if you did, I'd have some concerns.

Or is this something you heard @ Brell Pl?

I believe Apexi made one, if not, Hitman knows of a few (GM ones apparently too).

#3 robk

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 04:39 PM

Adaptronic sells 3 bar MAP sensors at a good price.
I think Haltech and Rocket Industries sell them too, but at a higher price.
267rwkw @ ~20psi

#4 Surok

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 05:02 PM

how much much boost did you run in your car jay to make 330 kw at the wheels?
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#5 MR2QIK

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 05:57 PM

No more than 20psi. You might wanna double check with Nick, cos I think he had one. I wouldn't push your motor any more than it was. It can crack a block or fail if pushed too hard on pump. You don't seem to be in a position to afford such failures either.

#6 Surok

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 06:35 PM

I think your 312kw was at 21psi, so I very much doubt that you got over 330kw at less than 20psi.
Mine made 311 today :) but we can't tune it further safely without a 3 bar sensor. Also it will be usefull when I flick over to e85.
Also, I got a new job ;)
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#7 2hardtop

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 07:25 PM

yep you need a 3 bar sensor
the 1st bar is down to 0 vacuum (use 1 bar sensors for NA cars)
the 2nd bar is 14.7 psi
3 bar is what you want if you want to run over 14.7psi but under 29.4 (there is the ability to overshoot the upper limit a little when tuning but its not as accurate)

Jay made the extra power with less boost when it was retuned with the new water-to-air set up he had fitted.
The new IC was obviously much better than what he had prior,as it made more power with less boost.


As robk said
most of the sellers of ECUs offer the GM 3 bar sensor
Adaptronic have the cheapest price I've seen here.
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#8 Surok

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 07:35 PM

Thanks Greg, I have a 2.5 bar sensor at the moment. I'll leave it at the moment, but when I get the car finihed up handling wise, I'll go for the extra power :)
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"I find great joy in leading someone that is tailgating me into a corner as I slowly accelerate until they lose control of their vehicle."

#9 MR2QIK

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 10:36 PM

Ok, better take your word over mine when it comes to my own car....lol

312 was with heatsoak (a2a ic in engine bay) & closer to 19psi @ peak power from memory. Never gone over 20 psi. A solid result though Richard, happy for you. Keep in mind, I had stronger rods, more free flowing exhaust & more aggressive cams (dialed in too) & kept on it to 8500rpm. As I'm sure Matt would agree, the block may not handle a lot more boost/ignition timing on E85. Would prolly recommend E85 @ max 22psi. Be careful, as you're on the limit for block strength. Don't throw away your extra income just yet.



#10 robk

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 10:39 PM

Richard, IF you're going to do E85, there would be no point increasing the boost, in fact it would be a good incentive to decrease the boost. If you reduced it by a few psi, but upgraded to E85, you would probably end up with similar power at the lower boost level.
267rwkw @ ~20psi

#11 MCT_MR2

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 10:45 PM

Haltech, motec etc use the delco 3 bar map sensors, they can even be made to work with power fc's if the tuner can be bothered fine tuning the calibrations. Most places sell them for around $120, but they can be had for a lot cheaper.

This is what your looking for:
http://www.efihardwa...elco-map-sensor

#12 MR2QIK

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 10:54 PM

Rob's got a very valid point. What people don't often realise is that whilst E85 may be safer @ the same boost level & similar ignition timing, it doesn't mean the same when you wind up the wick & throw in more timing to push the envelope further.

Btw, thanks for the info/link MCT.

Edited by MR2QIK, 25 October 2011 - 10:55 PM.


#13 MCT_MR2

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 11:14 PM

... and the fact that E85 has a habit of been a lot harder on your ignition system. Due to the way the fuel burns, the fact you can run more timing without the prescence of detonation, in doing so you end up working the ignition system a hell of a lot harder, particularily once you reach the 300+ region. You generally will need to go a heat range colder in plugs at minimum.

Think about it, there is 30% more fuel present, and said fuel is harder to ignite...... Hence ignition systems cop a hiding.

It's fair enough to change the map sensor if it is tripping out, or if you have a slight overshoot with your boost control setup and don't want the sensor reading to max out, but don't expect to be able to wind the wick right up.

we now keep 10.5 heatrange ngk competition plugs and 9 and 10 heatrange iridium plugs in stock at work now due to e85.

#14 Surok

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 11:15 PM

but then how the f**k did totenkopf pull 376kw? how do the americans get 600hp if they arent going past 20psi?
SW20 - 317KW
"I find great joy in leading someone that is tailgating me into a corner as I slowly accelerate until they lose control of their vehicle."

#15 robk

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 11:23 PM

Power is limited by many, many things. One of those things is knock and therefore ignition timing. E85 allows you to advance the ignition timing quite significantly for more power. However, this doesn't solve the many, many other power-limiting factors such as the physical strength of the engine and internals, and the ignition system as mentioned above.
267rwkw @ ~20psi

#16 2hardtop

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Posted 25 October 2011 - 11:25 PM

View PostMCT_MR2, on 25 October 2011 - 10:45 PM, said:

This is what your looking for:
http://www.efihardwa...elco-map-sensor

lol at the incorrect info that the site copy/pasted from the 2 bar sensor page.
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#17 MR2QIK

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 11:35 AM

View PostSurok, on 25 October 2011 - 11:15 PM, said:

but then how the f**k did totenkopf pull 376kw? how do the americans get 600hp if they arent going past 20psi?

Not sure about James, but I'm pretty confident if all three of our cars were dyno'd back to back, the differences would be better aligned. Don't lose sleep over it. There's pretty much nothing you can do to make your current setup/fueling hit that same number on Hitmans dyno.

As for Americans, 600rwhp is over 20psi with different fuel & on a Dynojet dyno (which reads higher by design). Apples & oranges. By comparison, Noshoes barely touched 500rwhp with a mild built 2L Gen3 (GT35R) with E85 & certainly more than 20psi.

Edited by MR2QIK, 26 October 2011 - 12:00 PM.


#18 Surok

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 11:43 AM

i just cant wait to drive it again...its been on reduced power since april.. hurry up sydney.. stop raining!
SW20 - 317KW
"I find great joy in leading someone that is tailgating me into a corner as I slowly accelerate until they lose control of their vehicle."

#19 Mrskylighter

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 02:51 PM

Does the car still have the Apexi 3 bar map sensor fitted?
It should have two, Apexi and a gen3 unit right next to each other.
I think :)

The Apexi is used when PFC boost control is switched on. Gen3 when switched off.

#20 Surok

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 03:56 PM

yeah thast all still fitted, i didnt realise i had two options there..
so do i have a power fc boost control thing?
but either way, the car now has more power than it ever had before. :D
SW20 - 317KW
"I find great joy in leading someone that is tailgating me into a corner as I slowly accelerate until they lose control of their vehicle."




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